IIM Grad? Have an IIM call? Show some humility.

Amit

Vidya Vini Yog di vikash.... the bridge is "Vini"

31 Jan 2013, 02.19 PM

Shruti

AWESOME!!!! WAT CLARITY OF THOUGHTS.... AND WELL KNOWN PERSPECTIVE SO BEATIFULLY PUT!! BOWS

31 Jan 2013, 02.25 PM

amit kumar

No.....I simply dont agree with u....u r simply intimidating the cat aspirants as well as underrating d IIM grads....If vernacular language had been the source of business communication,they also would have been read with that language n might have topped.....Its natural 2 follow the trend for an individual.....So,I think they have done their job perfectly who have cleared IIMs.You should appreciate their commendable work in spite of underrating them.

31 Jan 2013, 02.36 PM

Guest

Dear Amit, As writer has very well put, the purpose of this article is to ensure that IIM grads drop their air when they are at work/in-college. Its not the question of intimidating or getting intimidated, but being humble and responsible. I can add more reasons to writer's line of reasoning. I have seen some bright folks getting married, being shifted to foreign locations by their companies, too much work pressure at job as other reasons why some of the brightest folks from the sample set of english speaking population, do not write CAT or get into IIMs. Plus CAT doesn't tests your business skills which is totally different skill alltogether. So, if one thinks that having cleared CAT / graduated from IIM he is a businessman or a good business administrator : NO! NO! NO! At the same time, this is not to undermine the hardwork of all the people who successfully pass out of IIMs. IIM alumnus!

31 Jan 2013, 03.08 PM

santhosh

Hi amit, ask everyone to be humble because thats the right thing to do. thats the right way to go about life. and btw, your arguments in most part of the articles are wrong.

31 Jan 2013, 03.26 PM

Guest

interesting article..as one of my role models (who is also an IIM grad) once told me, "Wear the tag on your back and not your front". People should know you are a product of an IIM based on what you say and the insight you bring in rather than the brand that you get post studying there. The whole point of being an IIM grad is so that you can try make a change in the environment around you by using what you have studied and not by stating that you are in fact from an IIM. Cheers!

31 Jan 2013, 03.35 PM

rohit

IIM grads... the IIM tag will follow you right till your retirement. It will open doors and get you an invite to many a table... It is worth gloating about

31 Jan 2013, 03.55 PM

Alok

I totally agree with the author of the article on the issue of showing humbleness but have a slight difference of opinion on the vernacular language thing. Most of people coming to IIMs have done well in exams( other than cat) like AIEEE, JEE, EAMCET and other state level entrance exams(which is conducted in regional language also). So these people have proved themselves that they are good and have worked hard to excel in these exams( of course luck also played it part too) and we should not definitely take away this reward from them.

31 Jan 2013, 04.15 PM

@cyberdyne_101

You were spot on with the vagaries of the selection process in cat.. This year, if there has been one single community whose plight has been rather conspicuous, its the male engineer community. Just because we are engineers, and just because our aptitude is supposedly strong enough to compensate for any other parameter, we are deprived of almost half of our chances of making a cut. They perhaps despise with us to some extent probably because we are a little too good to be taught..And the predicament related to the normalization across boards is also a very authentic and valid conjecture.. I guess selection to the iims is more about other things apart from cat than about cat itself. And I'll never understand how ssc and hsc marks help someone decide upon the adeptness of someone as a manager..There is a serious need of reforms and we need these reforms quickly before these discrepancies eat up all of our ivy league b schools..

31 Jan 2013, 04.26 PM

XYS

Ohh yeah... A wrong calculation at the very start: "The total population of India is 1.2 Billion (120 Crore). Even if I assume 100,000 unique people took the CAT each year over the last 10 years, that still amounts to 1 Million people. "... You have not even competed with 99.99% of the country’s population." One competes with people in the same age group at least when one says so. Nobody inside any institute claims to better than the faculty there. And wrt to board marks and all... ,mere excuses... and people willing to the best never seek excuses.. Regards

31 Jan 2013, 04.46 PM

Whatever

I feel the writer is also a bit proud of having an IIM tag! Agreed that humanity should be a part of ones life. By creating such above explanations, you can undermine any person's achievements. For ex - You can say Gandhi became the Father of the Nation because he was influenced by the treatment in the South African train. If he was not treated like that..there would be No Gandhi!

31 Jan 2013, 04.47 PM

abhi

most of these facts are pretty obvious and well known to every one.simply doing the mathematics and showing the percentages does not make any real sense. coming to the point the IIM grads are not humble, i refuse to accept that. most of them are.

31 Jan 2013, 05.12 PM

Sharing Thoughts

well the most basic thing - doing well at some logical reasoning and english isn't the measure of smartness. A person with 90% is as good as 99% (percentile) - there is no way those logical reasoning and vocab skills are useful once you are above a decent level. The whole selection process of CAT sucks - we should follow a more subjective approach like Harvard, Stanford etc.

31 Jan 2013, 05.26 PM

Wannabe

I sense a communist mindset in your article

31 Jan 2013, 05.43 PM

Ashish

I truly agree with the author, about being humble in life. And infact I have seen people at IIM who help friends or aspirants in any possible way, at job are considered as very helpful and are not lost in some parallel world(as showcased by media). As fas as gloating over the entry in IIM goes, I think it pretty much fades away within the first one week when First year kicks off... :P Anyways, a good job by author.... :)

31 Jan 2013, 05.58 PM

mukund

Bullshit points.....

31 Jan 2013, 05.59 PM

John Galt

While the writer tries to cover his defeatist perspective of "everything is based on chance", it comes out very clearly. If Mr. Doshi was born in North Korea, a matter of chance, he could be the next dictator or miner - purely based on which family he belongs to. If he was born in Swaziland or Botswana, his chances of getting to the age of 21 would be pretty slim. Furthermore, which mountaineer reaches Everest and who doesn't is dependent, to a great extent, on weather. Does this mean that mountaineer who reached the peak has no rights to his achievements? To talk about it? To show the pictures proudly? Of course he does! Everything can be chalked up to chance. There is always a probability of failure/success due to factors outside our control. Does this mean we have no right to be proud of our achievements? Does this mean all human achievements are meaningless and just matter of chance? Of course not! Our achievements are matter of overcoming adversities. Doing the best in any given situation. Not squandering opportunities because "what is the point, it is all a matter of chance!" No, I am not going to be humble about my achievements. My achievements are hard earned and I will brag about them. I am not going to be my brother's keeper or victim of my own success or feel guilty. - John Galt Not an IIM grad

31 Jan 2013, 06.15 PM

Asuri

is it not a publicity gimmick. Create some controversy and attract some traffic :P .. Well it is working.. hmm 1st of all u got it wrong. I can not be compared with all people who were born at my time, as many of them have chosen different career paths. Only few chose management career they could be few lakhs all over the country, im certainly best out of them all. schooling Language is not a deadend. People can change their medium of education like I did after my 10th. Every life event is a matter of choice with a bit of chance(luck). U r magnifying luck contribution to unreasonable amounts. In that way ur argument is fallacious.

31 Jan 2013, 06.19 PM

Shruthi

Let's not complicate the argument...If a general engineer male doesn't make it to an IIM with 99 percentile and a woman SC manages to do it with just 90, its pure fortune right... and she would do well to be humble about it... About vernaculars..its true that English is a problem for many...but people either have the language ability or they don't. It cannot be guaranteed that a poor guy from the streets would perform if given equal opportunity...

31 Jan 2013, 07.09 PM

sandy

My parents warn me not to waste the food i am supposed to eat.But i don't understand the reason and raise the Q:Any way they are not gonna get the food i am wasting.So what's the big deal.I am sure they have seen more needy people in their life and i am very lucky to have it.But I have seen people who are more intelligent than me but discontinued their education due to their financial status.Now I understand this case and warn some people, who take the privileges given by these top most institutes for granted.I am pretty sure many others who haven't gone through my situation don't even understand this and raise a Q:Why shouldn't we take it for granted? and I am damn sure they don't even understand the case I was mentioning before.Anyway the analysis only gets understood by people who have respect for education and who have earned it at very high cost.I know some very very popular ROCK bands(NIRVANA) who don't even want to commercialize their songs, only because they have respected their profession(music) very much and they are ready to give it for free.All their video tapes are made only on their manager's pressure. Now I have Q:I am sure people who have passed out from IIMs who run coaching centers for cracking CAT and other MBA exams have shared this on their Facebook wall as if they are supporting you.I am sure they fall in to the case i was mentioning before and I am also sure that they didn't understand the epitome of this passage u have written. What do u say to them? They are deliberately crashing our chance of finding the right guy with the right idea.INDIA's population is four times the US population.If we can find a bill gates and a steve jobs in them we must find atleast 8 of those kind in INDIA.After all every one must have gone through their statistics classes.

31 Jan 2013, 07.22 PM

Charan

Believe it or not, most IIM grads, aspirants are all 'Fooled by randomness'. As the writer puts it, you are plain lucky. Right family, right education, right values, performance evaluated at a favorable time, right opportunities all lead up to a person calling herself/himself an IIM Grad. Show some respect for the system around you that has lent its favorable randomness in getting you where you are. IIM Grads/IIM Aspirants, all of them have to understand this!

31 Jan 2013, 08.12 PM

Emm Kay

ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS ARTICLE So what if there's an element of luck involved? So what if there are 'a few' who got left out in spite of deserving it? BOO HOO.. that's life.. it's not about IIMs.. it applies to every single thing in this world, every single position of responsibility, every single MBA seat (in any B school) If your intention was just to stir the conscience of IIM grads, well that's a different story then, which you could have portrayed in many other ways, rather than questioning their achievement. Achieving more doesn't rid anyone of their responsibilities and duties as a human being.. and being aware of that is a quality which you're either born with or you're not - it can't be taught or enforced

31 Jan 2013, 08.15 PM

thinker

Words = 1000 , message = iota. Should have devotes the time in cleaning up the message instead of plugging in unrelated data points.

31 Jan 2013, 08.18 PM

Split Infinitive

MBA's are the scourge of business. Period.

31 Jan 2013, 08.29 PM

Emm Kay

Oh and btw sir, it's a humble request as a fellow IIM alumnus to take this article down lest recruiters generalize and assume the mathematical prowess of every IIM grad to be as good as yours. Thanks a lot

31 Jan 2013, 08.30 PM

Guest

I disagree. My father was born in one of the most remote backward villages in India where people didnt believe in education.Unlike his friends who chose not to study high school or pursue higher education, he chose to study engineering, even if it meant he didnt have a penny in his pocket or the support of his family. All the people who the author is giving example of, those who dropped out before reaching graduation(to highlight the miniscule percentage who gave CAT) dropped out because of their own choice, because they chose not to fight any more or give up or chose to accept the diktats of the elderly. Or even made the choice not to be masters of their destiny. So to compare a person who chose to give CAT year after year and slog to win over someone who chose to drop out is unfair. Secondly, not everyone in India wishes to be a manager. Lots choose to do jobs, to be expert engineers, doctors, fashion designers, teachers etc. Many choose to do MS or PhD. Do u want us to compare with someone who chose to be a doctor and feel ourselves lucky because he didnt want to do MBA? If you want us to be humble because 99% doesnt give CAT that is a fallacious reason; 99% might not be giving CAT because of the reasons highlighted above. If a guy gets through into IIM despite the normalisation or reservations, I thing he should be commended because he succeeded against all odds. Luck is a big factor I agree; but luck is a big factor in all significant human achievements. Whether Edmund Hillary climbed everest or Amundsen reached south pole, they had luck favouring them. Your logic is like saying Sachin Tendulkar should not celebrate a triple century because en route an opponent fielder missed his catch. All arguments aside, I do agree one should be humble. Because it is the right thing to do. Because IIM is a door to quality education which will compliment your skills and make u a better manager, entrepreneur or employee. But just feeling proud because of the IIM tag isnt worth it.

31 Jan 2013, 08.34 PM

Abhimanyu Bose

Thank you so much... It is good to know that people are thinking things with reality! I wish you all the very best in the near future for you pragmatic endeavor for the people who so dearly need it. Godspeed.

31 Jan 2013, 08.45 PM

IIMB Alumunus

A nonsense time-pass article, filled with obvious facts and calculations! And yeah, of course undermining hard work of lots of people who clear CAT despite being from a Regional language school or lack of facilities and similar hardships. But as one guy pointed out, it sure is good for traffic. Every IIM guy has a right to gloat/brag about it - add to that the fact it sure opens doors (as one guy pointed out). Only thing is when you gloat, you back it up with your actions on field - that's all. - An IIM Alumunus

31 Jan 2013, 08.49 PM

Kumar Rahul

The author makes a valid argument that only a minority of Indians attempt the CAT. The competition excludes a vast majority of the population, who in other circumstances could have come out on top instead of the intended readers of this post. However his argument is incomplete. The author states that a number of deserving people could not attempt the examination. He does not explain the basis of his categorization of people into deserving and non-deserving categories. It is suggested that since many deserving people were absent, the basis of the accomplishment is diminished. The author's argument can be extended to any field and to any accomplishment. It can be said that the author would react in the same fashion when someone achieves an honor (say an Oscar, a Nobel or the Bharat Ratna) since the award can be attributed to a large number of people not participating. The author fails in his understanding of human psychology. Sense of achievement is felt with respect to one's peer group. It is diminished if his peers have an M.B.A. from Sloan and he makes to IIM Rohtak. The author's treatment of pride as something to be avoided does not hold ground. His suggestion of treating an achievement as a responsibility towards others defeats the individual's will; advocating for the same is akin to putting psychological barriers to a person's right to the pursuit of happiness.

31 Jan 2013, 08.54 PM

abcd

the same holds everywhere ? can u say the 11 players playing in interation ODI are the best?there may be talent who went unnoticed or did not have sufficient finances to support or politics ruined them.Same hold for IIT .are IItians best in india ? there may be some ppl who couldnt afford costly tuition classes but were intelligent enough SO comapring 2 lakh candidates wid entire india is utterly FOOLISH we always compare ourselves wid COMPETITORS NOT ENTIRE WORLD WHO IS NOT COMPETING arguements like we compete wid 0.1% of total population is quite meaning less considering this is one of the exams in which largest number of participants take place there are many vernacular candidate who succeed in cat even have topped cat So the point is CAT scorers be humble don't be arrogant but finally achievement is achievement

31 Jan 2013, 09.50 PM

Ketki

Intent of the article was good...you can say title is catchy....but article wrongly implies that all the candidates who clear CAT and get into an IIM are lucky. I wrote CAT 5 times and know how much I had to improve to crack both rounds i.e. written and interviews. Thus I would say....good intention but very flawed article. IIM Alumnus!!

31 Jan 2013, 10.03 PM

Snigdha

Humility is not a virtue. It a sophisticated form of lying, like diplomacy. It is a tact. It is an acceptable social conduct. Humility is attributing your achievements to luck or chance or environment. Humility is also dangerous cause when it pervades into your mindset so deep that you start believing it for real, your decision making power suffers. You lose self confidence and your ability to trust your instincts gets damaged. This post makes me sad, not just because it is superficial and based on a faulty premise but also because most of the people will mindlessly forward it. The author advises not to gloat or think that you are in the top two percentile of the country cause a lot of people do not take the test. This caveat though well meant is useless and even damaging. It belittles an accomplishment. Being in the top 2 percentile among one million students is an accomplishment. Getting selected from the high scoring pool, on the basis of your educational background is a bigger accomplishment. Being an iim grad the author knows how to crunch numbers, but he also knows how to avoid the numbers that tell the whole story. The number of students getting selected, i.e the batch size is increasing every year to accommodate "diversity". The author will have you believe that just because you are in an iim, it doesn't mean that you deserve to be there. It is horrifying that he thinks that there is someone who doesn't deserve education and opportunity if they managed to fulfill the selection criteria of a very selective test. No one says that people who do not make it into the selection lists of iims are undeserving or less talented. CAT is not an I.Q test. It doesn't show how you stand w.r.t rest of the nation. It tests a specific set of skills which are pre requisites of the kind of academic environment that the iims have. Privilege, Opportunity, Luck are ingredients of every success story. They come in one time or another. Look at any competition or test, look at any quiz, any game, a beauty pageant , a photography competition, the winners will always have a history of good opportunities, family support, or sheer dumb luck in some proportion. But they will also have talent and hard work. If you are an IIM Grad or have an IIM call, do not think any less of it. You have performed really well in a fairly large set. Plus, you have managed to accomplish what you wanted to. Revel in it. Take pride in it. Have no doubts about it, that you did some right things in your life. You acknowledge your roots, acknowledge the system, acknowledge all the good luck, but also acknowledge your own worth, your own mettle. You very well deserve to.

31 Jan 2013, 10.40 PM

Shreyas

Having read the article and the comments below, I see a point on either side of the debate. I believe the article was meant primarily to serve as a reminder. While it is indisputable that everything we can achieve is a game of chance (as one reader said, if you'd been born in Swaziland, the chances that you'd hit 21 were quite slim), we have for centuries (about three now) been persistently pursuing a more egalitarian society. And so, being humble and accepting the fractured nature of our socio-economic plateau would go a long way in securing the longevity of the equality ideal. In any case, being at the top of a 100,000 people requires quite a depth of conviction and I believe it is nobody's intention to paint that effort in flimsy colors. Yet, the tag that a turbocharged institute like the IIMs provide has a limitation in scope. It can open doors and grant invites in urban, professional settings. Perhaps not so much if one were to travel into the rural heartland where english is a rarity. Living in the heirarchical society as we do with power and wealth concentrated in the urban pockets, the opening of doors in urban india probably does the same in rural india. But the social fawning and superficial climate of the elite would probably be missing in the rural side. Appreciating both sides of the coin rather than providing emotionally charged commentary would be a quality that can take us forward as a nation. Nitpicking while retaining the intelligence to see the true intent of the author simply lays bare our own insecurities and our feeble attempts to comfort our souls. Peace.

31 Jan 2013, 10.55 PM

Sushant

There are a lot of reasons for being humble but this article definitely does not dig into any reasonable ones. Poorly written piece. Overtly arrogant and preachy.

31 Jan 2013, 10.58 PM

notIIM

bhaijaan kya powerful article likhe ho, aankhein bhar aayiin. #sarcasm

31 Jan 2013, 11.11 PM

vijay

lol.. the fact that you think you understand the world so well that u can be so preachy shows that you yourself aren't a humble IIM grad.. naive article.

31 Jan 2013, 11.14 PM

Raj

Most of my friends/colleagues from top schools are extremely humble, thoroughly professional in the work they do, are extremely creative, serve the society in one way or the other and are PROUD of themselves. While i also know people who are from 'average schools' , poor performers at work, and think they are the best. Lets not generalize. I would have expected a 'humble' article from an IIM grad. As others have already pointed out: - Typical b-school grad analysis, through some numbers to suit the conclusion rather then deriving an inference. I expect better. - Respect people who have worked hard and were simply not plain lucky to get through an IIM. - Luck is everywhere isn't it? Let's not berate our fellows just because they went to IIM's. - Now that you have graduated from an IIM and are earning handsomely, 'create' luck for unlucky people. - Be practical and matured in your thoughts then being emotional.

31 Jan 2013, 11.31 PM

Ryan

LOL! Some logic, that! Ok, so let's say I'm Steven Spielberg. I've just won an Oscar for best director. I should be reasonably proud. But hang on a second. Is that such a big deal? Even if every country in the world has on an average 1000 movie directors, that would place the number of directors in the world at around 2 million. So I've won a prize for which not even 0.003% of the world's population contested. Shit man, I might as well throw it away. Or let's say I'm Alex Ferguson. Manchester United have just won the Champions League under my coaching. But, should I be proud of that? Hell, no! We won only because the match was played in Russia, where it rains in the month of May, and the pitch gets wet and slippery, and that's why John Terry missed a penalty and that's why we won. It's all down to our 'luck' you see. No mate, I better not be celebrating!

31 Jan 2013, 11.38 PM

zen

what a sullen piece! Just goes on to show the immaturity and the lack of clarity in the author's thought process. It's like saying every parent in this world should stop celebrating the birth of their new born, simply because they were lucky and the selected sperm happened to be at the right time and at the right place! what crap! another IIM alumnus

1 Feb 2013, 01.40 AM

IIM alumnus

Don't agree. The author has given random arguments to create pubilicity is all I can say. Hitting hard at the ego of IIM students..If you torture statistics, they can pretty much say what you want. Note the Article starts with "I am an IIM alumnus". (even if it is to indicate that he is criticizing IIM grads despite he being one - which is trying to get cheap emotional connect)

1 Feb 2013, 01.59 AM

IIMB Alum

What in god's frigging hell is the purpose of the article - a self righteous post aimed to get some sympathy votes or assuming the moral high ground or is it that you think you can go around preaching coz you are superior to other IIM grads. holy jesus... writing just for the sake of it has a new example!!

1 Feb 2013, 02.14 AM

Ram Mohan Adibhatla

The entire article reeks of self-righteousness and condescension. This guy is your top candidate for esteemed Sophistry. Very easily identifiable one at that.. So, whatever strength one person has can be neutralized by the fact that he/she was lucky. Then, let's get rid of Math, Logic -and we have absurdities flowing in. To wit, Steve Jobs was lucky that he dropped out of college. Branson was lucky because very few in the world start an Airliner. Gandhi was lucky he got kicked out of South Africa. If he had been frank and had said that his is the kind of caliber that top B-Schools have, we would have at least respected his integrity(Even then, he woulds have been utterly wrong). All he has done commendably is to show a distinct proclivity for foot in the mouth diseases.

1 Feb 2013, 06.45 AM

Ashish

Snubbing people who snub people: Snub-a-ception

1 Feb 2013, 11.08 AM

@mrdeepakjain

Just say "Be humble". A two word message expanded into >1000 words? I'm happy to say I'll be proud to win a 100 meter race even if only 5 people are running. Or be the first one amongst my friends to finish that pint of Kingfisher ultra. But needless to say, I should still remain humble.

1 Feb 2013, 11.10 AM

Ayush

Though I would not agree completely with you but overall, very well said and a properly framed article with data wherever required (assuming it to be true).

1 Feb 2013, 02.11 PM

Shah

Just cribbing all the time about the criteria and shortlisting measures, its better that you provide a solution. There are a lot of people who indeed because of just one bad day lost out on scoring well in CAT. Between a 95 %iler and a 99%iler, there is a difference of a question or two max which doesn't make the former less intelligent and the letter more. Please provide a solution rather than just writing blogs to attract people.

1 Feb 2013, 02.32 PM

Shah

*latter

1 Feb 2013, 02.34 PM

Akshay

Its insane! Are you saying that every person who has struggled let it be for Harvard, Stanford, IIM, IIT are jus bunch of fools to get lucky enough to get into..you are so wrong Mr. Doshi. This case applies everywhere it doesn't justifies the point. Argument is pointless for sure. Hope I can meet you in person & clarify your all doubts & misconception.

1 Feb 2013, 03.06 PM

Sivaram

sayeth a man who owns the website 'insideiim.com'... If getting into an IIM isnt really tought, then take down your website and stop ranting about it ... The title message 'Stay humble' is fine though - but the lengthy piece of statistics and comparison indeed prove that u got lucky - wonder how u cleared DI

1 Feb 2013, 03.35 PM

Dave

[polldaddy 6871901 http://answers.polldaddy.com/poll/6871901/ polldaddy]

1 Feb 2013, 05.15 PM

Dave

Lets assume everything is luck. That my achievements are all due to my good luck. Shouldnt I feel proud that I am so lucky, that I have luck favouring me all along?

1 Feb 2013, 08.14 PM

Alasingachar

Outside IIMs millions do not know about IIMs. most of them in villages and in the workshops of the metros know only two meals a day as the ambition of their lives. They contribute to the GDP when they add value through their work and their farming. Buying whatever they need to survive they pay for as much as any one. Rice is not cheaper to them and costly for the urbanite. Who is humble and what are these statistics we are ' Rat' tiling about ' Cat' s???

1 Feb 2013, 10.54 PM

Sourav

Hi Ankit I am sorry but I could not find any central idea in your article, even more could not understand what you want to convey. Comparing someone with the rest of the country is stupidity, in fact comparing any two individuals is stupidity because you can never consider all the parameters that define the individual. If the main aim of the article was to inspire IIM graduates or IIM aspirants to bring about some changes in the society (from the last few lines of what you had written it appears so...) then I guess you would agree with me that there are many better ways to inspire people rather than comparing them with rest of the country and calling them exclusively lucky. Well, I wasted my time reading your post for I thought an "IIM Grad" would write sensible; still I would never criticize you. You are making an endeavor through this website to help people which is rare nowadays. Do some more reading about your country, her history (of modern India) , try to understand what song she sings and then reach out for the masses. --- Sourav

1 Feb 2013, 11.20 PM

Saurabh

...And the trend continues.. Write whatever you want, raise the controversial topics for cheap publicity.. The author simply forgets that the people who appear for CAT (or those who crack it) are mostly established ones.. The flawed statistics he uses forgets that it is a case of conditional probability not a simple %age.. No arguments about dropouts but even they will have to be taken as per the average national quality of students.. If the author thinks that mugging and vomiting is all what it takes then I pity him for his disappointingly small set based upon which he produced such a theory.. By the way, I belong to the category which struggles all the way through.. And I am a gold medalist at an IIM..

1 Feb 2013, 11.23 PM

ricky

r u an iim grad ? i seriously doubt with this shitty piece of argument that you have put...

1 Feb 2013, 11.25 PM

Divya

W.O.W.

2 Feb 2013, 12.31 AM

Muskan Tayal

got extra points in cat because u were a gal ? since when did this start happening ? way biased...

2 Feb 2013, 08.50 AM

ridum

Complete bullshit.. even i am one of those unlucky people who didnt get a call even when i scored a gud percentile.. but still...i knw d value..!!

2 Feb 2013, 11.35 AM

IIMB alumnus

Still fail to understand the point of this article! Isn't humility a trait to be imbibed by everyone and not just IIM grads? That statement somehow reeks of arrogance implying that only IIM grads have something to be so proud of that they should exercise humility. Totally disagree! Humility is something one should exercise irrespective of academic background, achievements etc, but being humble does not mean one should give up credit for whatever he has achieved in life..!! Guess its true that empty vessels make more noise in your case..!! And I don't even want to get started on the incorrect and irrelevant data analysis you have done! Coming from an author who writes in his very first line " I am an IIM alumnus and what I write below applies to me as well", but has his Linkedin profile scream details of his CAT as - "CAT (Common Admission Test - 246,000 test takers) Score: 99.7 percentile, November 2008 Last paper pencil CAT in 2008 ( 3 sections, 90 questions, 2.5 hrs). 95+ in all 3 sections " The whole article sounds just so lame!!! The least you could do is practice what you preach. Shameful !! - IIMB alumnus (And I say that with pride and humility. Yes, both traits can co-exist!! )

2 Feb 2013, 06.20 PM

Honey Singh

I think by writing a controversial article, the author has ensured a lot of traffic to Inside IIM. Nice move i say..

2 Feb 2013, 09.39 PM

@ankit9doshi

It is great to receive your feedback. I really value your observations and comments. A lot of us can just agree to disagree.

5 Feb 2013, 06.18 PM

Akshay

Don&#039;t you think the criteria to take in students is actually Flawed! <a href="http://being-vocal.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/open-letter-to-director-of-iim-kozhikode.html" rel="nofollow">http://being-vocal.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/open-le...</a>

6 Feb 2013, 10.30 AM

IIMA Snob

It&#039;s ok. The author is just an IIM Indore alum. Allow him his right to be an idiot.

7 Feb 2013, 01.18 AM

Critique

idiotic write-up ... most people in villages are uneducated and have difficulty in understanding and following simple written instructions let alone solving numerical/geometry problems... I guess the author has never been to any village

14 Feb 2013, 01.28 AM

Smartass

Are you yourself not obsessed with CAT? Or is it a stunt to attract eyeballs to your website?

7 Mar 2013, 02.25 AM

Pooja

Aptly agreed with you Ankit..... I have come across many people who have graduated from IIMs and wearing the mask of &quot;I am something because I have a degree from IIM&quot; ..... I hope this article will be an eye-opener to all those people and they start respecting every individual on earth without getting biased about the banner of the institution.... Kudos for writing this article.

19 Mar 2013, 01.16 AM

mmmmmmm

The author must remember that along with &quot;luck&quot; which he seems to constantly pointing out in his article..regarding education , English medium etc..still &quot;hard work&quot; and &quot;intelligence&quot; have their own place..and not all privileged people have the ability to crack CAT and make it to IIMs...it seems that author is either challenging the assessment process or the ability of the candidates..but he is not realizing that those institutes have become a brand only because of the performance of the &quot;students&quot; which they nurture and polish...also as far as question of English is concerned.....is it students fault that english is global language of business and it is the only language which is most read, understood and adopted throughout the world for communication??It seems that author is challenging the pattern of cat exam..then he should propose the solution also...

2 Apr 2013, 01.13 PM

Suraj

I agree with most of your points but i feel that the point about English being a part of CAT becoming disadvantageous to students does not make sense. English does NOT make one a good manager! But proper command over english is needed if one is to be able to handle the case studies, course material and whatnot which are all in only english. The purpose of having a verbal section in CAT is to identify only those students who can handle the courseload in english. If CAT were in vernacular language, then what will a telugu medium student suddenly cope with the huge courseload in english. So you point about english seems nonsensical.

8 Apr 2013, 01.08 PM

So Lame

This article is really lame! Lamest logic used in the &quot;statistics&quot; with useless lines meant to just defend the author in case of criticism. Somehow, it lacks to portray any sense of Honesty. And assuming all IIM grads are in need of humility is again, lame!

23 Apr 2013, 03.34 PM

Humble Observer

According to the author&#039;s logic: Neil Armstrong should not be proud of being the first man on moon because he competed only with White American citizens who were employed by the US Air Force as jet pilots in the 1950s. Therefore, he did not compete with 99.99999 of humanity. The author&#039;s surmise is correct: one must be humble even after achieving an IIM education.. But his premise is wrong: It&#039;s not because you competed only with a sliver of your country&#039;s population. Achieving a 99%ile among 3 lakh students is nothing to sneeze at. Anybody should be proud of an IIM admit. The applicant to acceptance ratios are far more favorable at the world&#039;s top B-schools. However, as others have pointed out, this pride should never manifest itself in arrogance or disrespect towards others. An IIM brand alone is not a guarantee of success. After graduation lies 30-40 years of career where you have to live upto the brand name through hard work and perseverance. Many have been able to do it and several others have simply burned out. Hence, the humility.

24 Apr 2013, 04.14 PM

Saravana

Excellent article. I can always have arguments to disagree. But these are facts.

8 May 2013, 10.55 AM

Shashank

I agree with your general message but I feel it hasn&#039;t quite come out right. I think IIM grads have earned everything they have got. Saying that they have competed with only 0.55 % of the population doesn&#039;t make sense. According to that line of reasoning a person who has been to the moon has nothing to be proud of as he has competed with even lesser number of people [as not everyone has tried]. i believe everyone who has excelled in their field deserves to be proud of his/her achievements irrespective of how many people he/she beat on the way. Having said that I do agree that thinking u are better than others who are in a different field is wrong. Anyways humility never hurt anyone !!

14 May 2013, 08.29 AM

Anonymous IIM guy

This dude himself seems arrogant, as does this article, as if he is the one &quot;ENLIGHTENED&quot; IIM alumnus. I too know there are some people out there who&#039;s only aim in life is to flaunt about their intitutes, but i am very sure that the percentage is small. Furthermore, the examples and stats you have used are seriously ridiculous.

16 May 2013, 02.51 PM

ratnakar

i gotta doubt... my academic performance of hsc/ssc were guite not so good, i got 69 in 10th and 61 in 12th, right now i am studying 4th year in cse stream, and will be giving cat next year, my academic record of engg. is quite good now avg cgpa 8.6 out of 10... so if i crack the cat exam or get good score in gmat, will i get selected, will i get a call letter from iim??? is cracking the interview of iim is so hard??? guys need your advice so that i can decide what to do in future, ?? cant decide what to do... its now or never... for me...

19 May 2013, 01.47 PM

ratnakar

bye the way, the message you wrote , you are theoritically right, but if you see in a practical way its a bad joke...

19 May 2013, 01.51 PM

null null

Yes i may agree to some points by author but would like to add a few more also before commenting i want to make a note we are not talking of litretaure or grammer here but abt top b schools so forget abt spel's and comprensions n focous on what this web is all for, For already IIM grads and pursuying good place to share ur ideas thoughts knowledge and help IIM aspirants to get close to their dreams n for IIM aspirants this web is to get answers help and may their way easier by help frm experts who hav already made it Thanks Now yes IIM gonna consider ur 10th marks So 28 states CBSC n ICSE We all know now easy its ther to score good in some of Indian state n if u are unfortunate enough to be a part of a metro city then god will help same goes with ur 12th marks i hav seen pple dont wanna mention the boards name, students who dint even appeared the exam can score 90%+ n we struggle for 75% And the best part is abt your Graduate percents All IIM give good weightage to ur grad marks There are 500/institutes+ universities in India offer bachlers degree, I hav seen Engg graduates from Pune university the topper may score around 75%-80% that 2 very few can manage after realy working to hard on the other side i hav actually met people scoring 90%+ in engg from other university dont wanns mention name , with out sny extra efforts were an avg BE student could easily score 75%+ without any extra efforts, so in IIM's giving weightage to your SSC HSC Grad really doesnt make sense, bcos pple come from diffrent schools colleages states universitys and cant be evaluated on same platfrom, obiously Person with 3yr BA with 75% cannot be matched with a 4 yr BE 75% cos its way difficult to score that much in engg than arts all this needs to be understood by selectors Also one more very week aspect abt selection criteria World top US b schools specially for MBA give very good weightage But IIIM doesnt, they prefer more academic records will make to stand a MBBS together witha BE which is no way comparable Last but most important Fees Most IIM fees are more than 10L for a poor person who has not seen 20k in his life can he really think of IIM or food gor two times and support his family Lot needs to be worked ? Thanks

20 Jul 2013, 03.16 AM

Akshay Jain

I do agree on some points by author but would like to add that this does not apply to all. And this is not the only matter of concern that how much proficient you are at English language.Many more things are considered before one is declared eligible to get into IIM . There may have more number of students among the rankholders whose upbringing took place in an elite or well educated family but still there is bunch of aspirants who never got a chance to study in english medium school and inspite of this excels in CAT. What does it harm if those people feel proud on going beyond the limits and set an example.

6 Feb 2014, 03.03 PM

mihir keshav

Amit, I really appreciate your effort. At the same time there certain things were transparency is required. a) Among all I felt few corners of your article lacks exact stats, to be more specific on arch we have now the literacy rate growing exponentially compare to other countries and I am sure with this pace we will on top pushing the upcoming talents not only to IITs or IIMs but to the abroad as well. I really felt proud when know some Indian holding Microsoft CEO chair, Ajay Bhatt- An Intel employee from India leading contributor developing USB technology and many more. Of course few among others do not have a book to touch in fact !! b) We can not say its family member fault not pushing their genes to school, again it happened since there parent must not sent him school as well. The point of discussion thus goes void and here some one need to lead. This will come with what VIVEKANANDA said "Arise, Awake and stop not till the goal is reached". c) Living in India where en empty cup full of rice is nightmare for BPL (Below Poverty Line) people is a tough call to let them understand about IITs and IIMs. d) India is country where every two people knows at least three languages. to bring them all under one roof we must required something called English. e) Standing in kitchen does not let you know cooking, but yes at least this stand will provogue hunger inside. Institute like IIMs or IITs sharpen talent.

6 Feb 2014, 05.26 PM

sushant pradhan

Ankit: Appreciate your thoughts on shedding of unwarranted hubris that IIM grads carry. You used the adjective 'premium' for IIMs, what makes the IIMs (or the IITs for that matter) premium institutes in the first place? Is it because grads of these institutions are BEST PAID in the market? I am sorry, in my opinion these institutions have failed miserably in their prime purpose - to prepare young minds who can solve (priority) problems of society. Having said that IIM(T)s are nowhere near to be honored as 'premium institutes'. If IIM(T)s deserve the adjective 'premium' then their grads also deserve the 'hubris'. Jai Hind

7 Feb 2014, 09.14 PM

Atif Akbar

The luck factor can be traced back to when your mamma and papa did the dirty and how the gametes interacted the way they did at the time of fertilization to make you such a special snowflake. How dare you say anything you do is an achievement!? All human achievement is but a culmination of the gifts bestowed by the Luck God. Be humble and wallow in self-chastisement.

10 May 2017, 02.03 AM

Shubham Gupta

That's right. The conclusion is on point!

10 May 2017, 07.46 AM

Rishabh Sehrawat

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You said all that we know deep inside our hearts but would never admit. Hypocrite world it is.

16 Mar 2019, 11.32 AM

om prakash

Really true to single word,the admission criteria that IIMs have is not achieving what it was intended to do..it's simply absurd and discriminating...

28 Mar 2019, 09.26 AM