Brand IIT And IIM Has Been Diluted – GD Monday

Welcome to yet another week of GD Monday!

To view and comment on previous weeks’ GD Mondays, please click here.

There is a specific kind of an awe that one experiences when you tell people you are from an IIT or an IIM and the tag IIT and IIM have been and will always be placed on a pedestal. But with the introduction of more such institutes every few years, the fear of the quality being affected stands. Can the newer and ‘baby’ IIMs ever be as good as the older IIMs? Will the quality of these institutes be affected? Is the brand IIT and IIM diluted? What is your take on it? Let us know in the comments section below!

This is how it will work:

1) Users can post their arguments in the comments section below by logging in through their www.insideiim.com User id.

2) You can argue and counter-argue on the topic for the entire week. You can even challenge your friends and make it more interesting!

3) The thread will be moderated by Team InsideIIM to ensure the discussion is kept relevant and is not abusive.

4) On Saturday, experts and industry professionals at InsideIIM (all ex-IIM, XLRI, MICA only) will rate each argument on the thread on the scale of 10 with some guidance.

This cannot replace the experience of the actual GD but this exercise will surely help you shape your line of thought. While we may not be able to help you here with your delivery, we ensure that if you go through these next few weeks with us on this thread you will markedly improve your content. Hopefully, there will be more substance when you actually speak in a GD after going through this exercise.

Team InsideIIM

We are the team behind your favourite platform.

Comments

29 comments

Sakshi Kochar

It is the kind of a law of nature that if something is available more is valued less. However this misses an important factor that is demand or requirement. So I should rather say if something is available more than it is required is valued less. Looking at the current demograghic, economic and many aspects of social scenerio in our country today we need many such institutions to create quality workforce to take advantage of current demograghic dividend available to us….. We must have started with one but increasing the number dint really diluted the brand image. The only condition would be that these new institutions value the brand name themselves first and put efforts to make quality of the education at par with existing one which have worked hard to build the name.

admin

@Sakshi – 6.5/10 – Although the articulation is below par, the points you have raised are valid. A little bit of data to support your points would have helped even more. You should practice more to improve your articulation and diction – your thoughts seem to be in place.

Joydip Dutta

The pride and dignity often enhances the performance of the students during their stay at the campus.The visions and goals get magnified,with the examples of the alumini carrying this brand name.Instead of dilution ,i feel it is a very effective means of increasing the high quality management graduates of the nation.After,it is the very student who are responsible for creating the brand name of any educational organization

admin

@Joydip – 4/10 – It’s a very interesting theory but i’m not sure cause and effect have the same relation as you have imagined. If yes, then please prove with data!

Trisha Singharay

In an economic point of view,by the principle/law of Supply in a free market, with the rise in the supply of goods or services, its value depreciates.Similarly, in general if we look into the matter,definitely an increase in the number of elite institutions like IITs and IIMs, the brand valuation dilutes.But let us have a close look into the matter.As my fellow friend Sakshi has already mentioned, in a developing country like India, with about 4.9% of unemployment rate, the demand for job is quite higher.Under the current situation, every now and then we find a huge mass of well-educated individuals looking for random jobs, sometimes that doesn’t even complement to his/her qualification levels.But indeed, statistical research says that the major reason being not qualified but less-skilled.In India, mostly the professional courses like MBA or B.Tech/M.Tech or rather BBA/BCA provides such qualities to the student, where they get to learn more of technicality and thus in this growing India, nowadays the demand for such courses are rising robustly,mostly MBA..But the problem lies when it comes to branding to bits.An institute, irrespective of what impression its parent institutions has already made, should start on its own.It can improve over its selection process.Like IIM Indore, the newborn IIMs can also introduce different integrated programs for Bachelors, so that attract a pool a fresh talents and can build them up over 5years.. Apparently, to me this can help them stand out as per uniqueness is concerned.Also, with quite a bit of research I have figured out that very few institutes have introduced courses like Digital Marketing.They can introduce courses like this which might attract more youngsters .Henceforth, expansion is a must and it goes against the general law of supply.

admin

7/10 – Good points Trisha. You have made some interesting observations. We like your thought process. However, the articulation is not satisfactory. The grammar is circumspect and so is the sentence construction. You should write an essay everyday to get better.

bishal96

The old IITs and IIMs are established after the independence of our country to impart quality education .The population was also not 1 billion at that time,So to give an equal oppertunity to all the talented students,the new institutes are established,but old will be gold.Although there are several IITs and IIMs,but the old IIMs and IITs are always the shining star in the sky,now those specific institutes will be of prior importance like IIM ABC in case of IIMs

Debashish Mishra

IITs and IIMs were created to act as the Temple of knowledge.However with time we see the quality has been compromised. The blame has been shifted onto the governments policy of creating more of such institution to cater the latent talent of our nation.However other issues which might have put a greater impact has nonetheless not been attended.Some of them being-:
1.Infosys chairman emeritus N R Narayana Murthy has said that the quality of students entering IITs is degrading year after year due to coaching classes.Murthy said a blueprint needs to be prepared to ensure that IITs should “transcend from being just teaching institutions to reasonably good research institutes” .
2.Reservations at various levels from form filling to cut-off.

New IIMs such as IIM Ranchi has already proved itself in front of the nation.IITs such as BHU and ISM were already much sought institution before being recognised. Hence, even though BRAND IITs and IIMs have diluted, its just a matter of time before they find there own heights. Its more about the poor selection of students than the quality of education which is to be blamed for.

admin

5/10 – A strongly opinionated piece and you bring out two new points – Coaching Classes and Reservations. Coaching classes is a very interesting point but you didn’t go deep enough. Reservations is a tricky topic and you haven’t done yourself any good by not arguing using any data to prove your point. The articulation is quite poor too.

Punit Sheladiya

Firstly, the brand value of any institution depends upon industry leaders it produces and it’s contribution in nation building. IIM ABC, now being more than 40 years old, has definitely contributed to both industry and nation building. Now, IIM Indore, being 20+ years old, has created it’s unique brand. So, rather than judging now, the new IIMs should be given enough time to show their calibre. The brand IIM have never been so strong with almost every large organisation having their alumni in top management now. So, I think the brand IIM is still strong and as the newer IIMs contribute more and more, they will definitely improve the brand stature of IIMs and same is the case for IITs, the only difference being the nature of education, management and engineering.

admin

@punit – 4.5/10 – You have made one point – primarily that – with Time institutions will get better. Apart from that we can’t see anything else that you may have said here. So late in the GD you need to bring in more points.

Aditya Shukla

Most of the new IIMs that are formed are operating under the mentorship of the old IIMs. So, they have the guidance of the IIMs that have proved their mettle over a very long period of time. As my friend Punit already mentioned, the new IIMs just need a bit of time to show their calibre and come to their full potential.

sani8362

IITS and IIMs are the premium institutes of India for Engineering and management studies respectively.There was a time ,when number of engineering and management students were a few in the society.That to if one had IIT or IIM degree,he/she was considered as the part of eminent group in the society.
The big branded companies have always craved for these IIT and IIM degree holders,because these institutes produced qualitative candidates.A few year back ,engineering and management were lucrative fields to earn big paycheck so more students were attracted towards these field.To accomodate the large crowd ,the central government has set up seven new IIMS and eight new IITs between 2008 and 2011.But most of these are operating from make-shift campus and face challenges in terms of their quality of teaching and research.These institutes are also short of teaching faculties by 20-40% as per official status.The present government in the center has allocated 500 cr.in 2015-16 for setting up five new IITS and IIMs.
There is certainly a need for more IITs and IIMs in the country,but they are coming too many too quickly.There is a huge gap in terms of facilities provided to student ,infrastructures,quality of faculties in new IITs and IIMs in comparision to old ones.As the number of graduates and post graduates are increasing,the quality of students are declining day by day.So the brand value of IITs and IIMs are no doubt diluting.
There are many good old private colleges which are providing excellent teaching and research facilities ,infrastructure,class room environment than these recently opened new IITs and IIMs.So most of the students are choosing former one.
So in my view,instead of opening new IITs and IIMs ,the government should focus on increasing the quality of seven new IIMs and eight new IITs those are struggling for their existence.The government should focus more on improving teaching staffs and research,infrastructures,facilities,so that IITs and IIMs brand values will remain intact.

admin

@Sani – 7/10 – Mainly for bringing up the ‘infrastructure’ issue and actually talking about budgetary allocation on the new IIMs/IITs. This shows that one has done some research and has context of things. As is the case with most people in this GD articulation could be better.

kunalg

In India if you are from IIT or IIM you are considered reverential.But with growth in population,the HRD ministry has been opening more and more IIT’s and IIM’s in the country.Some say that quality of these national institutes has been coming down as quantity is being focused more than quality.I believe that along with opening new colleges the government should also take care of the quality of the teaching in these institutes.Professors and faculties should be compensated well and more and more tie ups with foreign universities and foreign exchange programs must be initiated to maintain the quality.
Every IIT or IIM that are famous now was once a baby or new college.As time passes by and the college gets industry recognizition the college will get more and more valuable.I feel that it’s upto the government to set a standard for each of the IIT or IIM in terms of exposure and teaching so that one shouldn’t hesitate in selecting a particular college.Also these colleges are a great source of intellectual and financial revenue as well.So no matter what the brand name matters to some extent in the long run.

admin

@Kunal – 6/10 – Again mostly for talking about quality of faculty and need to enhance collaboration with foreign schools. New points which others have missed talking about. Articulation is not up to the mark.

Rahul Datta

I would like to look at the topic in a different perspective of Brain Drain . Due to the developing Indian economy even an upper middle class family person has started looking for a study opportunity outside India which was once restricted to the rich class . Apart from a few known and well established IIMs and IITs people have started preferring to go for a combination of studies and a good paying job which is possible in the outside countries only . In India the “Earn while you learn” scheme would take a long time to establish and thus will continue to loose a great pool of talent . This loss of talented people would definetly not allow the newly established institutions even IIMs and IITs to reach the heights they deserve . The brand value dilution is not really a valid idea as we still have a huge talented brigade for these branded institutes but yes opening new institutes and taking them to the level and brand image of Old IITs and IIMs would definetely not work due to the craze created among youngsters where they could earn and support their living much easily than in India .

One more reason I would like to point out is the quality of the Infrastructure , learning and the trust that the new Institutes are offering . Is it really comparable to the Old IIMs or to the quality that students search in the institutes abroad ? It has been seen that 6 new IIMS , if I am not wrong in the exact number , are running without permanent Directors . With a haphazard management how can we build trust among the students who would study here ? Are they really offering an infrastructure which is worth the fees a students pays and the overall development he/she expects ? Internal issues like these is affecting the intake of the students in these ‘to be elite’ institutes which should be handled first .

The Brand is still intact and very much famous , just a few but major changes that would help to flourish this brand image to the newly established institutes as well .

admin

5.5/10 – Interesting start with ‘Brain Drain’. Good on you to point out the lack of permanent directors in many IIMs. Apart from that couldn’t get much and again articulation needs work

Piyush Hemnani

Well, IITs and IIMs are brand because only the most talented candidates can only acquire a seat there. Only around 1 percentage of total candidates can make it to top IIMs.
Looking at the past trends, the number of candidates who appear for CAT is almost same or has increased marginally. Whereas, the number of IIMs has became almost double in the same time. Same is the case with IITs.
This dilutes the talent being entered in IIMs. I believe the number of IIM or IITs should be increased in the proportion of increase in pool of applicants, so that enough resources can be allocated to them. Apart from this government can build other educational institutions but not under the brand name of IIT or IIM. It will retain the brand value and will create opportunities for all.

admin

3.5/10 – @Piyush – Didn’t quite get the logic of number of IIM/IIT to go up based on applicant pool. Are you talking about Demand Supply? Or are you saying you want to maintain that 1% of people should only get in? Either way the argument isn’t strong enough or backed by any data or long term policy objective.

Shourya Jain

Today old IITs and IIMs are world class institution and indeed are brands. But one must consider a point that they were not considered world class since their inception, it took decades of gestation period after which they comes out as brands. So I think enough amount of time should be given to new institutions before any conclusion related to quality should be made.
Also one should look at the goal for which these institution were setup. It was stated by then political leaders that these institution were setup to fulfill the demand of engineers and trained professional in modern India and clearly the demand for such individuals have increased so it is only logical to increase number of such institution.
.
.
.
Also one of the speaker said that the increase in number of institute should be in proportion to increase in number of applicants, I do not agree with the argument, because it presupposes that the quality small fraction, say top 2 %, is good and going beyond that means dilution of quality, which is not the case. I believe many a top quality students did not get seats in such institution because there is seat deficit not quality/talent deficit. It will take setting up of inordinate amount (or significantly much more) of institutions before we need to worry about the quality. To support the argument one can also look at Indian students, who after not securing any seat in such institute and done quite good for themselves either by going outside India or by staying here . Hence quality should not be any issue for long time, we just need to give enough time to the institutions before we start judging their quality.

admin

4.5/10 – @Shourya – Decent articulation. Good rebuttal to Piyush but no new points added. There is repetition.

NaVed Nasim Khan

The aim of establishing IIMs and IITs was to provide quality education to the emerging young minds of our country.
With the increase in population the demand for quality education has also increased, and as a result we are seeing many IIMS and IITS are being setup in each state.
As concerned with the Brand IIM, yes the baby IIMs are not yet fully trusted by the industry and the students, but the it was the same case with the new IIMs like IIM Ranchi and IIM Rohtak but now they are well established as the clients(INDUSTRY) are convinced that the students from there are well equipped for the arising problems in the Industry.
If we go back a few decades, it would had been the same case with the IIM a,b and c.
So considering all these factors I would like to say that yes maybe at this stage the Brand IIM is diluted and the baby IIMs will take time to convince the Industry and Students alike.
But maybe in a decade the Brand IIM will get back it’s rightful crown

admin

@Naved – 4/10 – No new point is being made. It is repetitive. So late you need to have something new up your sleeve. Articulation is decent.

admin

Your though process for this topic shouldn’t be restricted to IIT/IIM alone but the entire education system and the employment scenario in India. How many people graduate each year in India? Why do people complain about lack of skilled labour even among these graduates who constitute less than 1% of india’s population? What purpose are IIM and IIT serving in this context – they churn out less than 50,000 students annually all combined together. What are India’s engineering and management grad needs? What infrastructure do we need? Is IIT/IIM the best model for us? How does India compare with the likes of China, South Korea, USA, Brazil? What is the impact of the internet on education? What about online courses? There are so many facets that can be explored.